as part of my job. some women to have some men will say yes and some will say no. either way, let's make it explicit and equal. >> host: examples of subtlety that we have overcome. more questions from the audience. maybe some people can assemble. ..

>> a lot of people hire based on experience. as industries change, if you hire based on skills, you can adopt and i think other industries should look to silken valley valley which has done very well. but basically adopting that. that will help a lot of people. >> one of the ways is to have a growing economy. there are lots of ways. the simplest way to solve this is to have hiring going on. >> that is a problem that is very relevant. we are struggling with immigration reform and they are directly related as problems. so there are plenty.

>> revenue solves all problems. [laughter] >> yes, we are talking about cash. >> cash in the bay. not hypothetical cash, but in the bank. what is interesting is that we have a really big case in our country. is her economy going to grow? the answer that we are providing is no. the reason is that we do not have the work force we need. there are only two answers to this. there is education and immigration. we do not educate our kids close to where others are. india and china, there are more kids and better educated. a lot of them are built on

immigrants. >> indeed there is a forward group that mark talked about we may actually get a logjam of sorts going on. having had much response from washington? what efforts are in the works for policy change? you are sending out an agenda. are they just ignore knew his usual? >> i think people understand that the private sector moves faster than the public sector. so we are seeing women start circles all over. a lot of people are asking for raises. i want you all to have raises. on the corporate sector, men like john tamers, he assigned the book is top 200 people and

said that i thought it was that it does, we are not so good at this. we are going to get better. stood on a stage and he said the only way to be the best company is to have the best individuals. women are 50% of the population. warren buffett talk all about women this year. i want men and women to invest in women not to be nice but because it is their bottom line. >> we face a global competitiveness with asia and asia continues to discriminate against women. it is pretty clear that you need everyone working together. so this argument favors your arguments for women. >> economic growth, a good% of it has been in the workforce. we have to continue to do that we want the growth.

>> what made you so brave as to call eric smith's breakout? >> was your mother and dad affirming you positively as a child, or did she chastised and crack you all the time? [laughter] >> i would say both. my parents were incredibly encouraging. you can do anything for. your brother and sister can do anything. i mean, when i was sick, my dad would say, you're well enough, out the door. you know, i was in college, my dad would say the best thing for a hangover is a good one. my parents were definitely go out and do it. they were incredibly supportive type of people. >> many political problems seem to be driven by policy positions

and old men. climate and health and gun control and the environment. where women have different views. the book is arguing for more women in positions of power and positions of government. i happen to be in london a few weeks ago. there are hundreds of countries and that is not just good enough. i believe we have more women in politics we would have more women and work. >> following upcoming question from the audience. do you think it is the hillary clinton's time to lean in and when the president said?

>> smi want her to run. [laughter] >> my daughter listen to this song and said, mom, why are they all boys. i think that hillary can be our first female president. it is not as if it's too long. >> you think an increase in female entrepreneurship could solve the issue of women not receiving promotions by giving them the power to make these decisions? >> i believe that women, it helps all women. companies with more women in senior roles have better recordings policies and we need more women in congress and enough companies and more women

entrepreneurs. we have a lot of female entrepreneurs in silken valley. and they don't get funding at the same level. interestingly if you look at the return, there is a recent study done the return on investing a female entrepreneur is higher than that they ask for the money that they need not the money they might need. we need to ask for more funding and we need to get it. >> in their more cache efficient? >> yes. >> excellent. >> you build a hiring machine at google and your legacy in the company is something that i see everyday to ensure that you feel the same way about facebook. one of the questions is what you look for when you're hiring someone and how do you actually make these decisions are the most important thing i look for, it is skills.

if you can get the perfect skill base in the right experience, that is great. but our industry changes so quickly that almost none of us have done anything like this before. so it's all new. so i ask people how they would handle specific situations and we are looking for flexibility. and we are looking for the skills of a can adapt. one of the things we are looking for is at a meeting that we, a lot of them were mbas and than they had been asking about their career path and that was a very good set of advice. because they were saying that we won't see fleshless. >> people would call me up and say i am a vp now and i need to be a senior vice president for chief operating officer or whatever your company. and i would say so all the

people actually showed up and said, how could i help. >> there were a lot of people that turned us down in our early days. >> they still remember. i was offered jobs with more senior titles. but the google job was way better job. even when i went to facebook. it would've been ceo of the things that i did. i came into work with mark. titles don't always matter as much. you to focus on that. >> he shifted to new company to get a bigger role on facebook. obviously. as a take a lot to get this new

big opportunity. >> i think again as we educate ourselves on the bias, we can educate ourselves. sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. it takes solving problems in the right way to approach a career is to say, what problems can i solve. one of my favorite is in the book, a woman was at ebay. and she said i think i want to work with you at on facebook. so i thought about telling you all the things i like to do. i figure everyone is doing now. so instead i would like to know what is your biggest problem and can i solve it. >> exactly. >> my job at the floor. is it my biggest problem is recruiting. and we had gone through recruiting. and she came in and now she runs all of human resources because

she is trying to solve our problems. >> this is a great question. do you think that part of gender bias behavior may be genetic as well as social? >> that is a profound question. >> there are too many negatives. >> ferne. >> i have a son and a daughter. my daughter will take to swords and make them kiss. [laughter] >> and you are trying to solve these. >> here is what we know. i believe there are genetic differences between boys and girls. but i do not believe that leadership is one of them.

leadership can have female traits and that has been documented over and over. so we can associate what is leadership. >> another interesting question is what is your opinion of a woman's physical appearance in the workplace and how it can help or hurt her career. >> it is a real issue, much more of an issue for women than men. i used to tell women that google to dress appropriately. >> dress for success. my boss called it my dress for success talk. he would hire these amazingly smart women with great skills. sometimes they look like they were going to a nightclub. and that wasn't going to happen. it is the same kind of advice.

i was suggesting genes are not short. i actually thought promoting themselves as serious professionals is pretty important. so i do not overly focus on it. i'm not into fashion or close but anyway. but the way we went in, we want to care about the perception. >> can you get more women into real and perceived places of power such as boards or directors. >> so the issue is a raging debate. i think the issues that i think each country has to pick what it i want to do and i'm not arguing quotas for corporate boards because i don't think it's the

most important intervention. if you look at the countries, it hasn't actually moved any of the numbers. if you look at norway they have photos of women on corporate boards. what we do is move these numbers up to operating ceos. and we want to see the numbers throughout, not just in one place. >> another question from the audience. how do you react to external signals. have you actually handle it and how do you behave? >> is probably the most important thing. i'm trying to help people understand it is easier to address that there is an article

written about her summer but oh, wait a second, she is told she is too aggressive and that happens women at times. so this is a crowd source of the response and mitigated to some degree. i'm hoping that this helps to change that. whereas before he would've had to go in and start from scratch and say that i appreciate it. i think we are getting help training our managers. there's a man who works in a facebook who started this conversation oddly by saying that i didn't read your book. which is a little weird. wouldn't you at least pretend. let's leave that for judgment aside. i have listened to you for the last five years. and i listen to what you say, so we just did our annual

performance reviews. he got feedback that he was too aggressive. men and women say what did you do that was too aggressive. specifically. they answered and he said if the man had done those exact same things, which upset would have said the same things and they said no. best thing we can do is get men and women to engage in this. smacks of the messages that they have to please is biased. >> and women will be able to say that there's a lot of data that says that i want to ask you specifically so how am i too aggressive we get specific. we need to say that i am grateful for the feedback and if

the man had done the same things, would he be too aggressive. >> okay, it gives lots of practical advice for solving the internal issues. what can we do to solve the external issues, which i think is referring to public policy and institutional issues. >> i think there's a lot we can do. i think we can pass better laws and elect more women. so just one and one day i was late for a meeting and i had to park very far away. and i was sick and it didn't work.

>> doing yoga in the corner, we need pregnancy parking. what he said is i never thought of before, i never thought of it. and i have never thought of before. and so my point is that if we get more women into these jobs, we will make those things work. soon. >> i'm sure a lot of other pregnant people were not in a position to mark into the office

and roxio got. [laughter] he would've looked up and said, who are you? he probably would've said the same thing. but they would have had that self-confidence. but my point is that we need all the institutional reforms, but one of the best ways of getting it is the women in this audience. companies that pay women equally. help women negotiate and train your managers not tell women they are too aggressive. i think women can be huge part of the answer. >> the final question from the audience is are you gearing up for a political run in 2016 and if so, which office. >> i'm not running for office. >> again, i am rooting for

hillary to go for that job. i am not running for office. but i do think more women need to run and run companies. i'm happy of facebook. i love the influence and i want to help more women get into those positions. >> this has been a treat for me for reasons that you don't all now. in 2006, cheryl and i were chatting. and we thought would be fun to have this famous people come by and in her typical organized way she put together speakers, which i was fortunate enough to do the interview for. and all of those years, never had a chance to interview cheryl at google. but i did buy initiatives end up interviewing extraordinarily famous people, including the current president of the united states in a few past ones. so this has been an amazing personal experience. i would be sort of interesting if maybe you could read a little

bit of your book to give people a sense. and i hope that you all understand the unique and extraordinary leadership that cheryl represents. and if we could emulate his style from the world would be a better place. >> i want to end by thanking you for everything you have done. i haven't read from a book ever. >> your own audio book? >> i did not. >> did you choose the person? >> yes. >> are they any good? >> she is fabulous. >> okay, so if you don't like printed books, by the audio book. >> i have written this book to encourage people to dream big and i'm hoping that each woman will set her own goals and reach for them. i'm hoping that each man will do

his part for women in the workplace and the home also with gusto. our institutions will be more productive in their homes will be happier when the children growing up a longer be held back by negative stereotypes. critics have scoffed at me for trusting that once women are in power they will help one another, since that has not always been the case. i'm willing to take that back. the first wave of women ascended to leadership positions and were few and far between. to survive, many focused on helping others. the current wave of female leadership is increasingly willing to speak up. the more women attain positions of power, the less pressure there will be to conform and the more they will do for other women. research already suggests that company with more women in in leadership roles have better worklife policies and smaller gender gaps and executive compensation and women in

management. the hard work of generations before us means that equality is within our reach. we can close leadership gap now. every individual's success can make success a little bit easier for the next. we can do this for ourselves from one another and our daughters and for our sons. in the future there will be no female leaders. there will just be leaders. [applause] >> thank you. [applause] >> and we have seen what it takes to be a global phenomenon. and extraordinary business and then the level of impact on the global stage that all of us would love to have.

i think with cheryl you can see that it's not just her intellect or experience. it is the whole show and it is her charisma and leadership. i am proud to have worked with her and i'm looking forward to working with you and all the things you want to do. >> thank you. >> thank you. [applause] [applause] >> what is on your summer reading list? >> i have this new book on my night table that i started reading. i read a lot of books on meditation as well. i'm also reading a book called the buddhist way of meditation. so i do meditate. i've done yoga and am always

catching up on that part of my reading. it is called the interesting by meg politzer. it starts with a group of teenagers in an arts camp and it takes them forward to their 40s and 50s. >> send us an e-mail at booktv@c-span.org. >> coming up tonight on c-span2, secretary of state john kerry announces a new faith-based outreach initiative. then security department chief of staff talks about the international terror alert and keeping americans keeping americans keeping americans safe. the tv booktv in primetime features viewer's suggestions including michelle alexander on the jim crow incarceration in the age of colorblindness.

that is followed by speaker of the house newt gingrich on his book gettysburg. >> guardsmen and national security experts are meeting to discuss national security issues at the reserve officers symposium. see it live at 8:00 a.m. eastern here on c-span2. >> tonight on the encore presentations of first ladies, campaigning is not allowed. they can say come vote for me for president. they can't do that. and you can't ask for office directly. you have to kind of use the subtle back channels and women were a good conduit of it in for that. so people try to ask for favors. she knows that she is not naïve. a lot of them are spreading

false gossip. she is aware of the political gain that is going on. >> the encore presentation of our original series, first ladies continues tomorrow night at 9:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. >> secretary of state john kerry named sean casey hit his dear advisor on faith-based initiatives. dedicated on outreach to the global community. this is an outreach event for 30 minutes. [inaudible conversations] >> ladies and gentlemen, the secretary of state, john kerry, special advisor for faith-based initiatives and director of the

white house office of security. >> thank you so much, everyone. thank you so much. i am really delighted to be here with you this morning. it is a great pleasure for me to take part in us. i'm convinced that this is one of the toughest challenges that we face in terms of global diplomacy and relationships around the world. we have had the challenges of many conflicts to the challenges

of simply understanding people. we are talking about regions apart and things like global climate change, which is really a challenge. this includes the garden figures of gods creation. secretary of state and before that. i was a secretary before that. i had met with faith-based leaders all across the world. we met with many members of our faith-based community here in our country and i had met with life philosophies and belief systems. that experience of only

reaffirms my belief that there is much more that unites us and should unite us than divides us. and the world's religions utile flowers from the same garden. i was at a gathering of evangelicals around america. and this includes clerics from the muslim world. an improbable gathering. for three days people worked and struggled with the effort to find the common ground. in fact between all the religions and philosophy.

whether a new order confucianism or any of the other different approaches this is tied together. by the golden rule. and they all come from the same human heart. leaders and citizens, particularly people in public life, everyone talks about how we draw strength from the

example of our faith-based communities. but not enough people actually translate those words into actions or policies or life philosophies. so i think that whether it's teachers are activists or religious leaders, working to heal others, we learn a great deal. it stands in stark contrast to violent extremists seek to destroy and never talk about building a community or providing health care with anybody. so we need to recognize that in a world where people of all faiths are mingling like never before, where we are this global community, which we always talk about, we ignored the global

impact of religion in my judgment and judgment. i have talked at length with people like king novella of saudi arabia and others who recognize that their religion, islam, has two large measure been hijacked. people who have no real depth with what the faith in fact preachers. but who interpreted in ways that lead people to conflict or violence. that is why we are talking about

faith-based initiatives here at the state department. it is as clear as it is compelling. it is to engage more closely with faith communities around the world. especially with solving global challenges and there is an enormous partnership with the asking. many of you know that we already have a number of leaders here at the state department. that work on issues related to religion. including on ambassador at large for international religious freedom. i want to say that we have great respect and these will remain equally as important. but i believe that their work will be enhanced by this effort. in the office of faith-based initiatives will grow our ability to be able to reach out

more communities and create greater understanding between peoples and countries. this includes the foreign policy working group and i want to think it's members, many of who were here today for their leadership. it also grows out of the u.s. strategy of the faith community engagement. which underscores the obama administration's commitment to working with communities of faith to advance our shared goals. you will hear in a moment engagement that i'm talking about, which is a two-way street. our job at the state department and not just to proclaim or standup and pontificate about things that we want, but we have to listen to people about things that they want.

we have played a valuable role in promoting the development of countries or preventing us, advancing human dignity across the globe. so we launched this office with a clear intent to keep our door open and work with all of you. i'm i am genuinely excited by the possibilities of this. religious leaders every day are taking on some of the toughest challenges that we face. they are healing communities, providing counsel families. they are working in partnership with governments for the enduring health of our planet and its people. so i say to my fellow state department employees, all of them, wherever you are but i

want to reinforce a simple message. i want you to go out and engage religious leaders and faith-based communities in our day-to-day work. build strong relationships with them. listen to their insides. understand the contributions they can make individually and that we can make together. you will have the support of this department in doing so and you'll have great leadership from my friend, doctor sean casey, who is going to lead the charge to integrate our engagement with faith communities with our diplomacy and development in our work. i met shaun casey in 2005. mike introduced us at a dinner. it is very interesting that

politicians always have lifelong interest in religion. we have had many discussions together about these and over the years i have come to appreciate shaun casey is a deeply thoughtful person who cares about the place of faith in our public life and i want to emphasize this to everyone. we appreciate this with the full recognition of thomas jefferson's understanding and admonition and separation between church and state. but what we are doing is guided by the conviction that we have

to find ways to translate the faith into efforts to unify for the greater good. that can be done without crossing any lines whatsoever. it sums up what shaun casey and i think this effort is really all about. it is a familiar gospel, of mark, which jesus says to his disciples, for even the son of man did not come to be served but to serve. to give his life as a ransom for many. it is the kind of exemplary effort that each of us needs to

do our best for her. to answer the call of service. you hear it with a common spirit of obedience and humility and love. he has answered that call and helped us to integrate these policies and magnify and augment and grow our capacity. to meet the challenges of this planet. for people to get jobs and get the education they need, we have work to do together and we need everyone at the table together. that is what this is about. ladies and gentlemen, doctor

shaun casey. [applause] [applause] >> thank you, mr. secretary, for your kind remarks. i'm humbled that you asked me to help launch this initiative and i'm thankful to you for the opportunity to contribute to your work as secretary of state. i'm not going to be able to call names. it's been a long time, but i'm deeply touched that you are here. i am blessed by the conversations that we have had, i think you and bless you for coming. i want to recognize my wife and daughters sarah, we thank you for the patience they have modeled to me over the years. and i am deeply touched that you

are all here. >> mr. secretary, you and i started a conversation about the rich and diverse complicated public implications of the religious beliefs and practice. you knew, however, that the reality was somewhere in between and i remember thinking at the time how unusual it was for a public figure to see the power of religious groups tackling extreme poverty, combating global climate change, and even at a time when others focused on those religious acts of extremism and perversely claiming justice in the name of their own faith. from that day forward i admire their willingness to defy the conventional wisdom that dictated religion was a purely

private personal choice. it must be entirely left out of the discussions of policy and that is why today it is always been a matter of deep importance. let me briefly describe why we are expanding religious engagement and how we will go about doing that. the answer to the why question is straightforward. as religious leaders shape their environments, they also have an influence and shape our own foreign policy concerns in the united states. it is essential for them to understand and bring them into our diplomacy efforts and to collaborate with with them on a variety of fronts from conflict prevention to the promotion of human rights and fostering

development. the presence of melissa rogers from the white house offers a partnership and it is evidence of the commitment from the obama administration from the outset in this arena. how we proceed to do this? we are consistent with the united states constitution and the spirit and letters of the law. second, we will collaborate with vehemence town already working the state department in terms of various aspects of religion. secretary john kerry alluded to the working group that helped to lay the ground for the creation of this new office, but let me mention some of the people who are already working very hard in this area. the ambassador at large for international religious freedom, susan hawk, and reshot hussein. special envoy ira forman and not

to mention the many leaders of our functional beer is i'm deeply impressed with the depth of talent in this committee. we hope to address this in an isolated manner, whether we are seeking to modify engagement with what exists across the bureaus and organizations. third, we seek to be fair. we seek to be accessible and transparent in our engagement. among other things, we have much to learn from our partners across the globe. our engagement has to be a two-way or multiway dialogue.

i am reminded of a man who walked these halls some 60 years ago trying to dispense advice to anyone who would listen to him as he arranged all of this. especially about how the united states should navigate the complex waters of foreign policy. this includes the aftermath of world war ii and during the birth of the cold war. i think we find ourselves today in a similarly complex in between time, as was the case in the late 1940s. many feared that america would be distracted by several things that might have led the country astray. among those was an ordinance pride in our own power and virtue. also the absence of a clear path about how to negotiate a post-world war ii map as well as the emerging communist bloc

there is a slow and difficult process, especially when exercising american leadership in this muddled and confused world. i would like to think that he would approve of our efforts today of expanding religious engagement as we navigate through very perilous times. thank you very much. [applause] >> now i would like to introduce melissa rogers from the white house faith-based office. [applause] >> thank you so much, shaun casey. good morning, i am honored to be here today. let me thank secretary john kerry for his leadership and my

friend shaun casey, for the leadership that he will provide in the days and years ahead. secretary john kerry has chosen the right person for this important task. i also want to thank everyone, including the many who are in this room that have labored for years. this is your day and it's a cause for celebration for all of us. let me say a word of thanks for your vision and for your work. it shapes who they are, and how they understand the world around them. it provides a sense of community and a sense of support. we are championing causes like

abolition and civil rights and the eradication of poverty. in so doingcommon advocates have often led our nation to keep the angels of its nature. similarly around the world on issues ranging from health to education to conflict prevention, religious and other societies are creating more peaceful and secure communities. the potential for religious communities to spark both positive and negative movement makes it essential for the united states to understand these communities and to engage with them we must know how to

address them in ways that are informed and intelligent. under the leadership of shaun casey, this will help the department of commerce the schools. advancing three critical objectives is our goal. first, promoting sustainable development and a more effective humanitarian response. including addressing key issues such as hiv aids prevention and child survival. by working with ledges and community leaders, and with other governmental agencies, of course, we hope to better protect the most vulnerable among us. by ensuring that humanitarian assistance is mindful in the

context where these programs are administered, we hope to overcome misunderstandings. the second objective is advancing pluralism of human rights. our engagement with religious and other civil society leaders should strive to promote pluralism. including members of minorities of marginalized groups. we understand that sometimes civil society leaders may disagree with their positions on certain issues. increasing our engagement with a diverse spectrum as well as secular communities to help underscore the universality of the critical rights. we work closely with many other

state departments. the third is preventing violent conflict to enhance local and regional stability and security. this includes violent extremism a guiding principle for all this work will be that our actions will be consistent with the united states constitution just as they do, other civil society leaders and communities.

we will receive guidance and continuing assistance on these important issues. working with them on a variety of issues this has helped lead us to this day and it will continue to be a valuable resource. in addition to our own white house office, many have centers for neighborhood partnerships.

we are wanting to serve people in need. by the way, i would like to thank the terrific leaders who have helped us for many years. we are building on a strong foundation to make engaging religious and other civil society leaders a routine part of the way we do business. to do this work effectively, we will need your help, we are so grateful for this new opportunity. but this office and the strategies provide we look forward to advancing the common than in the days ahead. we thank you so much.

[applause] [applause] >> thank you for coming, you are dismissed. [applause] >> that's what they told me. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] ..

>> our nation was engaged in a civil war. yet in 1863 our nation was reminded of its revolutionary past when henry wadsworth longfellow produced his -- and one of those entries began to listen my children and you shall hear of the midnight ride of paul revere.

so in 1863 the revered name is being elevated however at the same time the revered name is being chastised because one of paul revere's grandsons joseph warren revere brigadier revere of the army of the potomac is up for it court-martialed for his actions at the historic battle in virginia in early may of 1863 how did this grandson of one of our revolutionary war heroes get in such a mess?

>> the edition by david administration not to have president obama meet with president putin on the sidelines of the g20, what is the secretary planning on discussing on friday in the two plus two? and if you look at that statement within the litany of all the problems in the relationship what is left to salvage? >> well first let me give a quick update so i don't forget. set it -- the most recent meeting secretary kerry had with prime minister lavrov was yesterday in brunei. they also spoke on the phone july 24 so just a quick update. in terms of the agenda what we hope the secretary hopes to discuss on friday, he expects

and hopes to discuss everything from cooperation on afghanistan iran, north korea areas where we have worked closely together and where we had agreements but there certainly is more work to be done given the challenge of these issues to disagreements on missile defense arms control and human rights. they will also of course continue their dialogue on syria and discuss efforts to build momentum towards geneva and their agreement that a political solution to the crisis is the right step to end the bloodshed. it's not about discussing only issues where you agree or only issues where you disagree. it will be a combination. certainly we have an important relationship with russia. i think you're all familiar with the areas we disagreed which i outlined many of them but we believe we need to continue to cooperate on areas where we can, where there is progress to be made in the world and iran and north korea are both certainly good examples of that. but there are also areas as i

mentioned like missile defense and human rights certainly edward snowden where we have disagreements and those will be part of the discussion as well. use off course in a statement that the white house issued and let me just say that there was unanimous support for the decision within the national security council not to hold the summit. the point was made and this is one the secretary definitely agrees with, is that you know we are not at that point in our progress on a number of these issues where a summit at the presidential level was the most constructive step but at the same time we recognize there are many areas we need to continue to work on and the feeling was that the secretary having continued conversations with the foreign minister and of course defense secretary chuck hagel having continued conversations would be the appropriate next step. >> really does look as if you are in -- this could be a very

acrimonious meeting because after all the differences outlined really are very strong. could you give one area where right now the two countries see eye-to-eye? >> i think they agree that a geneva conference is the right step in the right mechanism to achieving a political solution. they agree and share concern about the ongoing threat of nuclear weapons from iran and from north korea. we share a dialogue with them on afghanistan so those are all issues certainly on a regular basis and will be part of the discussion on friday. but they're also areas where we need to continue to work to disagreements and i will be part of the discussion as well. i don't want to present the toner tenor but i will say we are here to state clearly where we have disagreements in the secretary i'm sure will be

forwarded those on friday as well. >> just to close the loop, the decision was to kind of split the baby and say go to the g20 and though meet with putin. can you explain the rationale? >> sure, i believe this was in a statement that major issues were not teed up to significant progress on the level of a presidential summit and a step to take at this point that there certainly is a recognition that it's important to maintain a regular content dialogue with russia on the issues where we agree on the issues where we disagree and this is an opportunity to do just that. one second. it's just friday and it's here at the state department.

>> here are the issues where we have problems and here's the schedule for how we are going to tackle each issue. when are they going to walk out and say to all of us at the end of the day? >> i don't want to do it prediction of what they will walk out with. it's always an oscar -- opportunity to have the time and they will spend a couple of hours together on friday to talk through these issues. and they will have the two and two in the morning and secretary kerry will have a one-on-one with foreign minister lavrov in the afternoon. i outlined the issues that we expect to be part of the discussion and conversation but i'm not going to make a prediction on what will come out of the meeting having discussed. >> up next the discussion on the recent worldwide terror alert and how the united states protects its citizens abroad. from "washington journal" this is 45 minutes. >> we want to welcome back's up to the chief of staff of the department of common security and former director of operations at the cia as well.

good morning and thanks very much for being with us. >> guest: thank you. >> host: this morning the bbc is reporting on its web site that yemen says it has foiled an al qaeda plot to blow up oil -- as someone who has been on the frontlines on these issues what is happening over there? >> guest: what we are seeing is a demonstration by the government in yemen that they are serious about stepping up operations. we have seen that country have absent flows in this level of seriousness in attacking the problem. they did release as you may recall a list of 25 top high-value targets within their own country and i think this is a good-faith effort to demonstrate to the united states that the host government which ultimately has the main responsibility for protecting our embassies abroad is serious about doing that. his. >> host: this is the headline from the pittsburgh post.

this is the center of the terrorist activity at the moment. >> guest: what we are seeing across the world is weak states are failed states are essentially where terrorists prefer to take root and it makes sense that in the case of yemen which has historically had a weak central government. it's a tribal, historically a tribal country and has had difficulty having a central government extend control throughout the region. so it also but saudi arabia which has been a key source of tension in the islamic world in the holiest cities of all of islam there and are rallying point for concerns with the tight relations with the kingdom with the united states. the combination of those two have made yemen and natural rallying point for those who believe in the al qaeda cause. >> host: the president and the

white house meeting with these president of yemen meeting with reporters, not really talking a whole lot that our relations with the yemeni government is what ?-que?-que x. >> guest: it is tense. i think it has gotten a lot better since there has been a transition of power. the new administration wants to demonstrate that they are not the same as the prior administrations. they have taken actions like we are seeing today where they are trying to put their own security forces out front. we have also seen for example not only the arrest of with the accepted training and they continue to conduct drone operations so all those are signs that things are improving but i think there recent -- was to deliver a message we need to see stepped-up operations in light of the intelligence we are saving. >> host: "the washington post"

reporting for john attacks of the last four days in seven months have passed with no drone attacks. >> guest: that shows you right there that two things, one is they are trying to show seriousness to the drones also reported as flying at low levels around the urban areas to demonstrate a show of force. that is politically difficult for the host government because as you know the drone strikes hit made some domestic tension so in terms of being able to demonstrate to the u.s. that they are serious those are steps that are confidence-building measures. >> host: ted koppel koppel now at with nbc news has written a piece. it is in "the wall street journal" and the headline america's chronic overreaction to terrorism. i read excerpts in their first 45 minutes but the country's capacity for self-inflself-infl icted damage must have astounded even osama bin laden and he points out there is always a nightmare for example of

acquiring, terrorists acquiring weapons of mass distraction but nothing would give the terrorists and a greater satisfaction than we focus obsessively on the remote possibility and restrict their lives and liberties accordingly. >> guest: i think this is always a difficult debate. i think if we step back and look at it since 9/11 the united states even though we are one of the most open and free countries has remained frankly open and free. we have continued to have super bowls and have continued to have people travel abroad. we have robust trade with our allies around the world. so this type of limited action i would use the analogy is like a hurricane. we have weather forecast that says there is going to be a storm and we are battening down the hatches and if you live in these places as the storm passes , great but this administration is leaning forward in a way that i think is professionally responsible and

they are being advised by not just their political advisory but also by the cia one of my old agencies as well as dhs another one of my old agencies. this is an example of limited response that is broader than many actions we have taken it to be honest is temporary and we will see here if it becomes perpetual then i think koppel has a point that this this is aa short-term batten down the hatches for a potential terrorist strike and that is an appropriate action. >> host: chad sweet a graduate from columbia university and his resume includes his work at the department of homeland security and worked for goldman sachs and morgan stanley. i want to go back to the issue of the chatter we have been having these references to and some have indicated including saxby chambliss on sunday's "meet the press" that it was reminiscent of the chatter pre-9/11. ofof course a lot is changed sie septembeseptembe r 11, 2001 to

where we are today. can you explain? >> guest: a couple things have changed. one is what is similar is we have been having a number of indications and a number of signs and part of the intelligence world world is you never get perfect information but you are looking for a pattern that give you a early indications of a warning. if we stepped us not only to -- but just a year ago before benghazi you can see patterns. 9/11 we had indications with an indicated method attack and reports specific way of planes flying into biz -- buildings. egypt libya and syria leaving up to a crescendo in the best -- death of our ambassador in benghazi unfortunately.

prison breaks and syria and prison breaks in iraq all of which have totaled over 2000 hard-core terrorists back on the battlefield so that signature combined with the intelligence we are receiving including direct communications between al qaeda headquarters instructing to attack. that confluence of events and patterns certainly suggest there needs to be, the usa to take a more aggressive security posture and that is what we are seeing now. >> host: to get your reaction from the london journal constitution. have been filed. one militia leader has been charged in two others linked to the death of chris stevens and three other americans last september 11. how significant is this? >> guest: is significant because now with criminal prosecution in place we have the

ability to go to the libyans and ask for extradition of individuals known to have committed a crime. and a deeper opportunity to collaborate with the libyans and it remains to be seen whether the libyans will cooperate in their request for the individuals indicated in the announcement. >> host: our guest is the two to and our phone lines are open. carson city nevada, good morning. >> caller: good morning. hello? >> host: you are on the air, bob. >> caller: good morning. the terrorists oversees have done nothing compared to the terrace in washington d.c.. the only thing that is going to start making sense is having a constitutional amendment limiting corporations and political contributions for $2000 apiece. >> host: okay. a little bit off topic so we

will move on. let's go next to rico joining us in southdale michigan republican line. good morning. >> caller: hi. i think the american people are idiots. we can go to the super bowl and just travel oversees and yet have this tsa looking up art -- at the airport. let's go to reaction to the tsa part? >> guest: first of all i appreciate that security sometimes creates limited inconvenience but our colleagues at the tsa fulfill a very important mission and i was just asked -- would ask rico the question, when i was at dhs and people complained about the tsa we had to do our best to make them better and they have consistently improved in their overall professionalism but i will say that if you step back and think about it their soul mission is to keep you in the

safe. if i could ask a hypothetical question. you have a choice of which one you want to fly and you can take whatever risk you want. which one are you going to put your children on? most people would say they would prefer demonstrated over and over again that airline is one of their primary targets. most people appreciate the mission of the tsa is important and they would and they were elected on the on the airline. every time i get on i turn to them as long as they are respectful and 99% of them are our response to the tsa folks should be thanks for protecting us. >> host: chad sweet is the ceo of the -- founded by secretary michael chertoff. i want to get your reaction of homeland security to the story

published based on the reporting of abc news that al qaeda may have developed a new form of explosives a liquid explosive and essentially at the technique allows you to -- into liquid that would make a textile explosive upon drawing and one official calling it in genius. guess who is a great example of where we can never underestimate our enemy and in this case al qaeda has shown over and over again and ability to whenever we create a measure they do a countermeasure. it's back and forth between them. both when we are in government and invested in technology and procedures to try to thwart all explosives outside of government we are actively involved with people in that sector and what i will tell you is right now what we saw after the underwear bomber and 2009 was finally it took that incident which was

unfortunate where for almost 300 americans died over the city of detroit. only then was that a political will to say we now need to use 21st century technology which we have against the terrorists. so if you look at it right now in a world where they only have to be right 1% of the time we have to be right 100% of the time on defense we should use one of our few at images which is technology and the vast majority of the explosive detection systems in place today aren't capable of detecting either this type of clothing soaked in liquid explosives nor are they capable of detecting even say the surgically implanted bombs or something as basic as the underwear bomber. most are designed to do -- magnetometers detect metal. that is not the explosive itself.

usually the only medal medal involved as the detonator so if you are able to designed explosives with no metal detector, you effectively have made that system. we are living in the stone age's on most of the magnetometer technology we are using. our one advantage which is bring for this modern advanced imaging technology to allow us to level the playing field in the last thing i would say in response to the last caller, i know the evasiveness the tsa has to do during pat-downs much of that could be avoided. much of the inconvenience to the american public experiences could be avoided if we embraced and used more robustly that best technology we have available. >> host: for you personally to think about this topic whether it's implanting devices inside your body, liquid explosives, where did they come up with these ideas? who is behind it? >> guest: they are very creative and what is challenging

is they are not just tapping the minds of one crazy person and one part of the world. they have developed network and one of the dark side to the internet is you are able to go to the internet and exchange ideas with each other over vast areas. so the mastermind, most of the bombs we have been tracking is it gentleman named alba sherry and he was the architect of the printer cartridges bombs and the underwear ponds and we believe he is the architect of that bomb in the body, bomb used in the attempt to assassinate the minister of interior of saudi arabia ahead of -- so they are at the leading edge and we have set up all over the globe a combined explosive exploitation

cell and whenever there is an advisory we have the joint task force that collaborates with the host governments. we are able to track a variety of different things and elements of the bomb reveals signatures and who made it so at the end of the day the creativity being driven here they have a network that they are using among many people. we have a network for things like in and their own collaboration with our allies. that is how we we are going to n this fight. you have to have the full value and experience of all the networks that we can bring to bear. >> host: this program is carried live on c-span radio which is heard coast-to-coast on xm channel 119 and we welcome our audience on the radio. our guest is the two. he is the co-founder and ceo of the chertoff group and he works for the department of home and security also is the chief of

staff there and the director of operations. susan is joining us from fort myers florida. good morning. thanks for waiting. >> caller: yes, sir. i am confused. the yemen government did send us the president directly mr. clinton, president clinton a wire of some sort saying that they had a high-value target and more or less he could not act on it because of our relationship with the yemen government was not too good. osama bin laden was there and they were basically any way asking us to come in. is that not a factor for any of 9/11 occurred? >> guest: thank you for your question. i am not aware of that specific cable. i do know is you will recall president clinton did receive intelligence that bin laden was

in different neighboring country in sudan and after evaluation of options that president clinton did elect to send a cruise missile into sudan where he was believed to be holed up and unfortunately he was not there. i'm not aware of that particular cable from the yemeni government. >> host: another question from jane on our twitter page. isn't the revelation that we can track chatter from al qaeda a more serious breach than edward snowden's domestic spying leak? >> guest: is a great point that jim makes. basically you are right, jim. in many ways it is because at least in this particular instance it has now been revealed that we actually were listening in on the communications between i'm on all zawahiri and the leader of the aqap. unfortunately it was revealed that most likely we had their

cell phone or e-mail communications that enabled us to do that. the revelation of that not only the method that specific individuals talking we have now learned that source. you can imagine how hard it is to get the direct communication between the top leaders of your adversary that are overall the cia. that would be the goldmine. getting close to the top leadership would be commended and again that the goldmine. unfortunately we just shut off that old mine and we are no longer going to be able to use those phones in the future operations. they were quite on those lines and they will use different sources. it is very damaging revelation that the communications in this case if it's true word leaked to individuals. the second i would make is also

disconcerting because if you go back and look at the exploitation that god out of the ababa but compound when we took down -- what you will see are two college libraries of drives and computer data that came out of that compound. a dialog between bin laden and -- he was basically communicating to his lieutenants don't attempt these low-level attacks. you need to focus on what i did more of these high-level attacks like 9/11. and basically folks like al al-awlaki in yemen said no we need to get points on the board. we need to show the world we are still around so there was this heated debate between the older generation and the younger generation. as long as bin laden was there he had a hold over them and acted ironically as the governor

on their behavior. now that he is gone this communication if it's true represents a significant shift where essentially zawahiri the replacement for bin laden is more or less conceding the younger generation is right and using al qaeda as one of his operational arms and basically rewarding them for these low-level attacks like the underwear bomber and like the cartridges and the attempted assassination of the minister of interior of saudi arabia. >> host: when you are at dhs the last to use the push of ministers are we aware of this nsa phone data collection operation? >> guest: i was not. >> host: next to war in arkansas, democrats line. >> caller: yes, my problem is that everyone is mad about the

tsa but i love them. yes it's an inconvenience but would you rather be in the air at 10000 feet, 5000 feet whatever it is in your plane blows up? yes they needed to overhaul their system and get better employees but we need them. >> guest: thank you for that point and that is exactly right. we all have to have certain things to keep us safe. for example some people might not like to stop at a red light in an intersection but we recognize that we need some way of coordinating car traffic at an intersection. some trade-offs in convenience are necessary for public safety. your point is exactly right which is very few people i think would want a complete no security approach to one of the most repeated threats of al qaeda. the question is whether we should have some security and how can we make it better and you said it very well which is

there is an opportunity at to make it an investment professionals at tsa but it's also an opportunity as i said earlier we can make the checkpoints of the future better. there are ways that technology can be used so you don't have to take off your shoes and you don't have to take off your jacket. you can go through with mascara if you are a woman or -- if you are men. those technologies are there but we have to you willing to embrace them. coming back to today's discussion one of the reasons i think the administration leaned forward on closing some of these entities is they don't have some of these technologies today figured into all of those facilities. it's a threat strain we are getting of a surgically implanted bomb, what they need time to do is what we did after the underwear bomber which is forward-deployed more of those advanced imaging technologies that in fact can actually trace

the detection of explosives or to the imaging below the clothing into the body to see if there is an explosive on a person. >> host:>> host: let's get the e comparison of the department, security. you were there during the middle of the creation of this after 9/11 and congress and the president agreed to dhs. you essentially put together 22 federal agencies an estimated 180,000 employees and budget back to 2003 of $36 billion. today, 240,000 employees and a budget of nearly 16 billion-dollar -- $60 billion. this is a huge department. >> guest: it is and what is a little bit not understood though is those were actually separated in different agencies. if i could use the analogy, i played football at southeast texas. it's almost like we had a team

of football players running around on the field with no coach and what 9/11 not only the kind -- commission did find was because we didn't have agencies on the home team we needed a quarterback and that is what the whole world with the department of homeland security is, to bring together all the different agencies that have equities in defending the homeland into one team in under one coach. i think the size of the organization candidly should be shocking. all of us taking every one of those pieces that were there already and bringing them in for better coordination. >> host: gatesvilgatesvil le texas independent line with chad sweet ceo in co-founder of the chertoff group that formerly with the department of homeland security and the cia. >> caller: we always made -- the problem is you all stopped

making one or two things that you are taking and putting the whole country -- you keep referring to people going through an intersection with a stop sign. [inaudible] you don't have that on the airplane. we don't have to airlines like you suggested and if we did i would thank the other one because you guys might get into much trouble to go through and get on an airplane. you are not at war against us. you are at war against those people over there and that is what we need to realize. that is my only comment. >> host: thanks for the call. >> guest: i appreciate his perspective. i just fundamentally disagree. he used his own analogy. if you use a straight intersectintersect ion at a streetlight there is not an option in your town but if you go to a streetlight and you don't like the streetlight he you can drive around and go to

another intersection and they have a stop sign. the purpose of the fundamental issue around public safety is there. we are not there to inconvenience you are me. they are there to protect us and they think what i will agree with you on though is the least inconvenient as possible. there are things as i mentioned before and we can do that. another thing you will see is director pistol is running called the tsa pre-checking i would highly encourage you to consider signing up for that. that said program that is voluntary but it enables us to bring in additional tools that we have in the toolset which are risk-based screening. if you are willing to provide a little bit more information about yourself you can regarded essentially like a frequent flyer program and a trusted flier program. again that 21st century technology and process is

exactly the way we can make airports safer more convenient. >> host: another screening question from one of our viewers. with all the information that is collect you still need to have american shoes referring to the shoes coming off as you go through the screening process at airports. >> guest: today there are technologies that can help detect explosives in shoes. but right now those technologies have not been deployed. there are problems in the challenge to fix as we saw with the bomber who redid it the first time and that is what led to that -- [inaudible] since then though you are going to see a number of opportunities in the coming days for that type of technology to be deployed. i think one of the implications of what just happened this week with respect to the embassy closing is i think you're going to see a rebuilding of are we

doing enough especially in our embassies abroad to deploy the technologies that would detect a bomb in a shoe? was good a question that came up last night on nbc's the tonight show jay leno asking the present how serious the latest terrorist threat is and resulting in the closing of embassies in north africa and portions of the middle east and here is the presence response. >> well it significant enough that we are taking every precaution. we have already done a lot to bolster embassy security around the world but especially in the middle east and north africa where the threat seemed to be the highest. whenever we see a threat strain that we think is specific enough that we can take specific precautions within a certain timeframe than we do so. now it's a reminder that with all the progress we have made putting al qaeda between afghanistan and pakistan back on its heels, this radical violent

extremism is still out there and we have got to stay on top of it it's also a reminder of how courageous our embassy personnel tend to be because we can never have 100% security and in some of these places. the countries themselves sometimes are ill-equipped to provide us with kind of security that you want even if you reinforce it. there are still vulnerabilities. >> host: the present last night and one of the questions was why go public with these threats? >> guest: i think two things. one is the actual going public of the actions we are taking in response to the intelligence is one thing. the going public at the actual source for the intelligence is another. the latter is a bit controversial. in other words it is not good

that it was revealed that one of the intercepts was between the two leaders of al qaeda headquarters and the arabian peninsula. >> host: how is that revealed? >> guest: the first report came to the mcclatchy newspaper. the administration reportedly asked "the new york times" to not reveal that information in the new york times withheld that information. only after they pointed out it was coming out with different sources the administration apparently then approved technology more broadly. this is a problem and if we reflect back on stuxnet which was the use of offensives cyber to take down iranian -- and again i don't know whether it existed or not but there were reports that were later released and confirmed by the adminiration and david sanger of "the new york times" that it

was used to do that. those types of revelations are damaging. they hurt our ability to operate they are very upset with that source being revealed. it would have been much better to avert that channel. we will no longer be able to find alternate ways and that was a goldmine to have direct communications between the two leaders. on the first why let the world know through the state department and that's a good thing because it doesn't get into exact sources or methods or let the public know why they are taking actions they are taking and what to look out for. the one thing i will say is a construct of criticism in the administration, we were in his administration too so i don't want to be too much of an armchair quarterback we have an awakening where we let the public know what's going on

oversees and dhs has set up over a 100 fusion centers to keep them posted on what we are seeing abroad and unfortunately in this instance there was no unclassified communication with our state and local partners in the fusion centers so that is the problem and still is one today. they should've done a joint intelligence brief on that. it just means we need to tighten up our home games. >> host: the pittsburgh post-gazette yemen is the center of the terror threat and mary ann is calling on the democrats line. good morning. >> caller: hi. hi. i am calling about, you were saying about the president. i saw him on jay leno last night and he is not, he didn't capture anything from benghazi and now all of a sudden he is on a campaign to catch the terrorists

that attacked us and benghazi? i think he is nothing but a joke. he is not a president. i don't know, he is terrible. i don't believe -- i believe there are bad people in this world as far as the terrorists are concerned but he just made it worse. and one more thing i would like to add is where did they come up with this videogame? these parents have a right to know what happened to their children and how the president president -- i am not aware if you guys know this but the president did not invite the mother, sean smith's mother to receive his medal because she spoke out against him and they are telling her she is not immediate family. how dare him.

that is the most terrible thing i have ever heard of any president. he is the worlds worst. thank you for the call. >> host: thanks for the comment. >> host: >> guest: i'm sorry but i can't answer that. >> host: soft targets versus hard targets, what's the difference? >> guest: if you think about the analogy would be imagine and embassy which is extremely well guarded typically versus a consulate which is usually smaller and in a more remote part of the country or to put it more in a domestic context imagine a police station or a military base versus a school or a hospital. those facilities all have different gradations of security and part of the problem when we put facilities abroad again no matter how fortified they are

there is an an asymmetriasymmetri c threat where the host government ultimately has to be responsible for protecting those installations. as we saw in the iranian hostage crisis in the 70s no matter how many marines who have guarding the embassy at some point they would get overwhelmed by the external forces. so that is why ultimately when you look at different embassies or consulates they have different gradations of how hard or soft targets they are. in addition because of a the regions they operate in some aren't high-risk areas so part of what was the evaluating which ones were the most vulnerable. because of the chair --. >> host: this is a question from mary. how detectable will a implanted explosive device be if terrorists stoop to that? >> guest: today there are two primary technologies we have, or

three, three technologies. one is called backscatter and one is basically trace detection where they use puffers. what happens is the first to back scanner and -- to act like an x-ray so they can't see below the skin and depending on how strong the signal is they can also go below into the body. those two have the greatest potential to be able to detect a surgically implanted on. the third which is the explosive trace detection or puffer equipment, to get in the body they will have some residue somewhere on their skin or their clothing almost like csi, microscopic powder. those explosive detectors also are very effective. the three that we just talked about, back scanner and trace

detection, neither of those are deployed at our embassies abroad and that is part of what we need to have a discussion on. also we don't have those fully deployed donald of our airports. >> host: chad sweet is the co-founder and ceo of the chertoff group and bonnie is joining us from middletown new jersey on the democrats line. good morning. >> caller: good morning gentlemen. with your background with goldman sachs and morgan stanley i'm i am sure you are sensitive to situations that can afford the opportunity for progress and i don't think there is a bigger opportunity for-profit when they are sick culture of chaos and fear and ignorance. mr. chertoff came up with his screening machine there. it didn't make anyone safe but a great deal of profit was made.

our national security now is privatized. this isn't going to make us any safer. i think what would make us safer is being made aware of a situation and having outputs like the old-fashioned kind of news organizations that do inform us. as far as the underwear bomber he was -- and he was able to board a plane. how that would happen with all the expenses and security that our taxpayer dollars are supplying. >> host: bonnie thanks for the call. chad sweet. >> guest: we have had this discussion before. what i would say is this. first on this issue of profit what i would ask is remember when we were in office we had no commercial relationship with any

of these technologies family supported this when we are in office responsible for protecting lives. we are helping provide private-sector solutions to meet the challenges that the government of the other's face it is not the case that it is privatized tsa. you may remember virtually virtually the screeners at the airport were private and then they were made public. so i just want to correct that point that i think on this question of the underwear bomber it's a good point. the underwear bomber there were indications that before he got on the plane it would have signaled that he should've been at least a suspect. you're exactly right there. that is an example of what i talked about before where we need to both have better process and better technology. on the process side it's exactly what the tsa admits readers doing today and at the tsa pre-check where if you are able

to get voluntary information provided by citizens voluntarily that can help build trust because you were able to get a trusted signature trusted algorithm to show that individual is not a threat versus those who know that someone like abdulmutallab the underwear bomber. his father went in twice to indicate there was a threat and actually got on the plane with a one-way ticket bought with cash. those are all signatures that should have put him put into a secondary screening at a minimum. i would completely agree with your point is that the combination of using that data and the signatures is appropriate and we need to do that both abroad that we also need to do it at home with things like tsa pre-check. >> host: mattson has a comment on twitter page. if someone wants to harm us that enough no amount of security works forever. the the real solution he says is to stop terrorism at its root. this focuses on foreign policy. let me ask you about what the guardian is reporting this

morning with regard to yemen. the focus and center of this terrorist threat and aqap which is a qaeda arabian peninsula which is an acronym we have been hearing about that runs aqap and what is this organization and how is it different or similar to the bin laden group? >> guest: it was set up by bin laden's initial secretary, the number three guy named all what he she. he is not as visible and is very very close inner circle of al qaeda. anwar al-awlaki became very much a very popular figure. essentially there was an understanding that once anwar al-awlaki fled the united states and went to yemen he became the face of aqap and what he she continued to be the number two guy behind him to operationally

keep that going. the two of them had a different philosophy than the older generation of al qaeda-led by bin laden and zawahiri. initially zawahiri and bin laden had a centralizcentraliz ed command and control where they were in charge where the operatives would submit there were guilty to them and they would only execute operations that they had authorized. again they wanted 9/11 style attacks with hype profile iconic attacks. they attacks. they felt it was demeaning for them to get down and do things like smaller ied attacks. the younger generation led by led by wahashi said no. they said we haven't had a successful attack so they had a rift between the older generation and the younger generation and again when enlightened that killed the iron

if bin laden was he actually for our purposes was acting as a governor on those younger generations. now, he is gone. instead of it being like a snake where you have cut off the head in the body dies this is more like a cancer that has to be put into remission but it's going to take a lot of chemotherapy and a lot of attacking those cells. these have now franchised in a very malignant way. the most malignant of those cells is aqap web guide wahashi previously by al-awlaki. >> host: with everything we have talked about within the last 45 minutes i want to ask ask you a final question which is what worries you the most to think about that and we will go to virginia. our last call from cincinnati ohio on the independent line with chad sweet. good morning. >> caller: good morning. i agree with your previous caller about the profits being made off of the taxpayers.

i noticed with mr. obama think he's a disengaged president. staying in washington and working with with the congress and said of traveling all over the country in the world trying to save the reputation of his administration with his rhetoric. what has happened recently, why advertise these closings? why not simply do it quietly instead of making national and international announcements about it? he is trying to capitalize on it like he did the bin laden thing. all that did was get the ire of both the people on the other side and probably cost the lives of some innocent people. >> host: another point about the publicity of these threats. >> guest: i think, what i would say is it's difficult to actually execute this broad closings without having some type of announcement. my sense is that they have tried

to make it known so that those that are traveling in the region and who are affected by it are aware. the second thing that we don't know and this is the art of counterterrorism, there could have been an intent here to help put al qaeda on its back foot which means the decision to let this be known was a psychological operation, a way of saying hey we got you. we want you to know we are onto you and this action is meant to put them on their back foot and say wait a second we did realize they were listening in this close on top of us. therefore we need to readjust and maybe call off the pot. i think we have to give the benefit of the doubt to the professionals that are devising on this and again i don't see how they couldn't have made the announcement without letting a broad number of people know about it given the geographic region it was him. the last thing i would say though is when they do this i

want to come back to the point made earlier it's important they not do it not only abroad but one of the best things in terms of our response was better coordination on the awakening of the home game. they should've put out of joint intelligence bulletin at the unclassified level at fusion centers here at home and that the dhs and fbi could use with mayors and with governors and chiefs of police etc.. they need to know what's going on abroad and how that affects them at home. that is part of the purpose of the fusion center. in this case is clear when need to tighten up the coordination between the away game in the home game. this is just a rare exception where it could be better. >> host: in our final minute what does worry the most? >> guest: what worries me the most is complacency. we have an extraordinary run of success in fighting al qaeda. if you look at it and if you ask yourself the question imagine

yourself back on the night, the day of 9/11 and then on day nine/12 if someone asked you at that point in time would you be willing to take a million dollar bet that no one will die on u.s. soil from a terrorist act 10 years from now from an ied? the answer you would probably say is i will take that bet because i think it's going to happen really soon. instead what we sought is it took all the weight until the boston massacre most recently. i think that shows the tremendous effectiveness of what we put in place. it's one of those things where you hope that success does not breed complacency and the american public continue to show that we are mindful of this thread thread and we are not overreacting to it and we are going to remain vigilant and i thought the way. >> host: chad chad sweet we will leave it there. thank you very much for being with us. >> guest: thank you for having

me.

>> i am not some sort of person who thinks that everyone needs to live in new york city. i was very sensitive to coming across as an espresso sipping condo dwelling elitists of some kind. that is not why i do this book. i understand why people like the suburbs. i get fed up with a lot of daily life in new york city a lot. the trends were so undeniable and the fact that there is a shift in the way suburban america is perceived by the people that live there is too big of a story to ignore.

during the congressional recess this august oklahoma congressman tom cole is holding three town hall meetings in his district. in a town hall tuesday he spoke about the funding obamacare but not at the expense of the government shutdown. here is a look. >> the question occasion. is the congress is getting around executive actions because not all of these are orders and allies in congress filing a lawsuit? in some cases where. as a matter of fact attorney general the united states was recently held in contempt or we filed against him contempt of court case. we have multiple subpoenas to force testimony and you know so there is legal action underway. there is also things congress can do in terms of not approving presidential appointees. they are things we can do in terms of withholding funding and we have done some of that in

some areas pretty early whereupon the care is concerned so there is a constant tension and struggle here between the executive branch. i agree with your point but i think the president has more than any president i recall operated outside of the normal legislative framework since he lost control of the house and the senate. the examples i can give are legion. we went to war in libya. i would consider it were. i can tell you when we fired 212 tomahawk missiles and 100 predator missiles to fly a thousand combat sorties the guys from the other side think it's aware. it was never approved by congress. if george w. bush would have done that we would have had impeachment. we have part of our laws unilaterally suspended by the president by the year before he said he couldn't do that. there is just a variety of issues like that where he has gone outside. we have tension within our

system and struggles facing congress and the president but this one is very serious. i think you will see it continue that there will be legal cases. all the way back here. i'm going to try to bounce around a little bit but again we will get to everybody. we are going to wear willful excel. >> thank you. i was concerned to find out you were not in support of making the continuing resolution contention upon removing what optional spending you can remove on obamacare. i feel strongly and i think others do and i speak from a point -- [applause] this is not theoretical for me because two weeks ago today my husband and i paid in cash for her son to have major surgery a four-hour procedure but that is the price i pay for the liberty of my children. i am self-employed and understand the consequence of that as i have limited options thanks to our government on insurance. i understand that i pay for a limited coverage. i don't pay a thousand dollars a month or $2000 a month.

i do not look for the government for recourse on that. we are individuals who are responsible and they will make that sacrifice for our child. even if you do not believe in your heart that it's appropriate you need to represent us and we are tired of having you come down on it again and again. [applause] >> a great question and i appreciatappreciat ed very much. i do try to represent people. first of all do i want to defund obamacare? absolutely. i voted 40 times to repeal it or delay it. we have been able to actually pass seven pieces of legislation if you are a small business owner you don't have to file a 1040. i was in the original law. congress got rid of that and republicans got rid of that quite frankly and force democrats to accept it. there was part of this that was assisted l a on cal devices.

can you imagine health care by taxing your oxygen tank your wheelchair or your artificial limb. i think we should do it now. the question is do you want to shut down the government if you think that we'll achieve it? i understand that but let me talk to you a bit about the consequences of what they complete government shutdown is. number one that means the troops in the field don't get paid. i am sorry. now i listen to your question and i will let you have the microphone again if you want to. no, i will but let me finish answering and you are free to follow up.

that is true. we have four veteran centers in the state and 15,000 defense workers being furloughed by the way right now. that would be a complete job loss and another 3000 or 4000 it fort sill national weather center. those things are real. just because you shut down the government doesn't mean the other side has to give in. it doesn't mean that the senate has to pass legislation. we can pass that and send it to the senate and the senate will refund obamacare and send it back to us. then it would be up two of us. if we reject it we would have to shut down the government. politically that's an extraordinarily dangerous thing to do and i don't think it will work. if it works that's one thing but i don't think it will. i think it will put millions of people out of work and really damage the economy and hurt a lot of innocent people. you will have a chance to

respond. >> i do understand that but it's a false argument from the standpoint. the house passed two versions a continuing resolution that excludes obamacare that has that going forward. granted the senate we know what they're going to do. we do. but at some point obamacare was passed against the will of the people. we have looked to our supreme court to step in. they failed us. we have looked to her congressman to do that into your credit 40 times you guys have come in and tried to get rid of it. insanity definition is that we keep doing the same thing again. that is not going to cut it. this is their last chance and it's more than just who is going to win the political power play if we shut down the government? is going to be what will the future of our country look like in a decade? once the tentacles are there it's too late. look at social security. i think that is worth the risk. i also don't think it would come to that.

>> well, i think you would come to that. if i can finish my point, i think it would come to that and i don't think it would work. look, we can do as you suggest. there is no problem passing the original bill without it. that's fine but it's not going anyplace the united states senate. it will have an attached to it and it's going to come back. at that point i really do think about the consequences of this kind of stuff in terms of veterans and i know you do too but it is true. i agree with you that is passed against the will of the american people. the american people didn't give us the presidency in the last election and they didn't give us the senate. the house is the last thing between the replay of 2009 and 2010. which is what we would see if there was total democratic control of the congress with things like cap and trading card

check and those things would happen. i will take what you have to say literally very carefully and consider it. i suspect we will have a lot of discussions about this but i don't want to be disingenuous and tell you that i think shutting down the government is a good idea because i don't. i would be dishonest with you if i told you i thought it would work. i am not the only guy that thinks that. i don't think james langford are dangerous liberals are tom coburn who feel strongly and guys in other parts of the country like james blunt or richard burr who happened to be around during the last shutdown. if it would work that would be one thing but i think it's a high-risk and very wreck was with people whose jobs are on the line and our security as well. i think it would be very damaging. i'm going to be a hard sell on that but i will keep listening and we will see what the

legislative options are in september. >> next to discussion with michelle alexander author of the book "the new jim crow" mass incarceration in the age of colorblindness. this event from the university of tennessee is 90 minutes. [applause] >> thank you. thank you so much for this warm welcome. it feels wonderful to be here. i am thrilled to see so many people eager to join in dialogue about where we as a nation find ourselves in this drive towards freedom. it seems particularly fitting that we would have this conversation today, the day after our nation paused its daily business to pay tribute to reverend martin luther king, jr.'s life and his legacy.

and it seems fitting that the would have this conversation the day after our nation's first black president was sworn in for his second term. now i know much of the nation has already moved on and president obama's soaring rhetoric about the promise of america life, liberty justice and equality for all. it has already been forgotten by many and i know that many, many people in america will not think of dr. king again until his holiday rolls around again next year. but i would like for us to pause tonight and think more deeply about the meaning of dr. king's

life and his legacy and what it has to teach us about our nations present. it seems particularly important for us to do that in that this year marks the 50th anniversary of the march on washington. 50 years have passed. 50 years have passed since king's voice soared over the washington monument, declaring his dream come cup i have a dream, that a dream deeply-rooted in the american dream. yesterday while i was watching president obama's and i grill it dress i heard a quote of quote of king's speech, that i have a dream. when i turned off my television set i spend a few minutes reflecting on the question compact are all of us, to all of

us truly welcome to, to all of those truly welcome to share this dream, the same dream that dr. king dreamed? most americans i'm sure can recite portions of dr. king's i have a dream speech. it's an extraordinary and familiar speech. i have grown accustomed to hearing clips of his speech played over and over, the recycled over and over on the radio every january. they're the favorite quotes, the favorite lines and now that i have school-aged children i see how king has explained to them in classrooms. when i was in elementary school, that there was no martin luther king day and no discussion of his heroism in the classrooms. when my children came home from school just the other day, god they told me all that they had learned in school about king's courage. he was the man who stood up to the bullies, the man who would lead -- believed to all children

and walks of life should be judged by their characters and not the color of their skin. he was willing to die so all of us could live his dream. i find myself conflicted as i listened to my children bear it back to me what they heard in school about this man who believed in kindness and forgiveness and justice and compassion for all. and i say yes, cut a yes, got all of that is true. all of that is true, to but i feel uneasy. i know that something has been lost in the translation. that sense of disorientation was crystallized for me recently when i read harding's insightful book, martin luther king the inconvenient hero. dr. harding was one of king's closest friends and advisers arching with him countless times and living around the corner from king's family in atlanta.

harding writes with some real sorrow quote it appears as if the price for the first national holiday honoring a black man is the developmedevelopme nt of a massive case of national amnesia concerning who dat last man really was. i would suggest that we americans have chosen amnesia rather than continue his painful uncharted and often disruptive struggle towards a more perfect union" math. it appears he says as if we are determined to hold their new hero captive to the powerful period of his life that culminated in a magnificent march on washington in 1963 refusing to allow him to break out the yawns the stunning eloquence of his eye have a dream speech. dr. harding writes quote we would like to forget that it was not the weaver of gentles sonny dreams of freedom who were shot

down on a balcony in memphis tennessee" math. he was by 1968 a different and more creators man, a man ahead of his time. and i can see clearly now that on days like yesterday we rarely honor the man who died. we honor that sunny and cheery version of him. we honor the man that gave the soaring speech about black and white schoolchildren and men who trained and integrationist dream but who was king five years later in 1968? who was that man killed on a motel balcony the man who was marching with sanitation workers and demanding economic justice not mere civil rights. the man who had come to believe after the civil rights bills had already been passed, after the civil rights victories had already been one that our biggest battles, of the most

important battles still lie ahead. and that nothing, nothing short of a radical restructuring of our society held any hope for making the dream and promise of america a reality for all. king explained reporter in 1967 quote for years i labored with the idea of reforming the existing institutions of a society a little change here come to a little change there. now i feel quite differently. i think you have got to have a reconstruction of the entire society come to a revolution of the values. frustrated by right resistance to addressing it in any meaningful way became ghettos failing schools come for structural joblessness and crippling poverty, cut king told his staff at a southern christian leadership conference the dispossessed the poor white

and black live in a cruelly unjust society. they must organize a revolution against the injustice comp and not against the lies but against the structures through which the society is refusing to lift the load of poverty. .. uld he believe that the nonviolent revolution had already been one? or had even begun? the revolution of values that he part prayed for? would he if he could see us today believe that we now share his dream, that we are now traveling the road he was marching? 50 years later have we caught up with king yet? are we finally on the path that he was traveling in 1963, 1968?

back in 1969 while blood still stained the motel balcony where writtenoring hurdered a poem was re >>fl only just begun the transfm process to be transformed in gure to a nation a troublesome and dangerous black figures to a national hero. it was written way back when the memory of the king's assassination was still fresh in tears still spillin spilling among those whohen left him. back then in 1969 karl when dole, jr. reflected on the death of king wrote. >> now the key is safely dead let us praise him give a monument to his korean sinkholes on a to his name. dead men make such heroesnd

now from the images to fashion from their life ineasier besides it is easier to that hmonuments have been in to build a better world so conss we biddies consciousness to teach ourt children he was a the great man knowing the cause for which she lived was still a cause and the dream was still a dream, a dead man's dream.in luther ng, >> now that he is safely dead martin luther king, jr. safely dead, is it true? is he safely dead today isy is dream safely dead? people i know that many people inroom this wou room would say no. dr. king's dream, his spirit is so much alive. thriving right here in thisette room.evthere be o what betterf evidence could t

there be of this fact that a nation all pause to pay tribute to his stream?l it just yesterday inliday national federal holiday. think about that andin luthe national federal holiday for martin luther king, jr. oncehe it deemed a threat to, a national security by the fbi, a troublemaker, isn'tt obvious that we have finally f caught up with king? we may not have been livingr evd history but don't we sharewe juu it?nation methin just we elect our nation's first president? unimaginable a 1963 or 68.evidet what better evidence couldto a ra there be then the beautiful mal multiraciainl, multiethnic gathering on the mall in washington d.c. that wester witnessed just yesterday broad case -- broadcast dreand the world?g the

clearly we must be living the dream or sharing the dream. philt?merous it has been said by numerousctis philosophers ian theologians, ay that any society orust levilization must be judged by how it treats the mostrs andi vulnerable members and prisoners. king would no doubt agree in aen considering how we fare ind mysf that regard i find myself thinking of people like and out susan burton who cycle in and out of the prison systemthia in this postf mass incarceration post king, a era m post civil-rights era a time when the prison population has more than quintupled overwhelmingly poor people of color have been permanently permanently locked up or locked out, stripped of the very civil and human rights and that dr. king and so many liv fr others risked their lives

for the and some even die for.usan i think of souza, whose son was killed by the police.. helice cruiser barreling down herstory in los angeles vp ran over her fibril boy.. she received no apology or lossd no real the acknowledgement of her loss and she fell into a deep deep depressiontimay of grief and ultimately ack-co became addicted to crack cocaine. wealth now is susan had been wealthy or even solida good hlte middle-class with a good job d health care plan sheundoubtel undoubtedly would have qualified for many, manyy and hours of therapy and counseling. she likely would of have a legal prescription drugs to help her cope with her severe depression and grief but things were different

for susan sh impoverished, living in l.a. anus begme addicted to crack cocaine and thus began her odyssey cycling in and out of prison for 15 years. 15 years. every time the prosecutorwe w would say take the deal we will give you three years rather than eight.this this time we will give you five years rather thanwill cut 12th this time we will cut you a break. takes the deal we will give you two years rather than six. another one plea deal after another, never offered to the drug treatment only every to a prison cell, every time she was released him pushoutfind artistry and able to findng

housing often syem for on the streets slight -- cycling in and out of our prison system 50 years by no small miracle she was granted access to a private drug treatment facility it was given a job oter she got clean if sheest said she would dedicate the to rest of her life to makeo sure no other woman would have to go through what she went through and she beganoing o by a going out to skid row to meet women, prisoners as off they woul td get off the prison bus carrying nothingthint but a cardboard box carryingle o their belongings with littleurnd or no money it turned out ontrea nde street and she would say to sen these women just come coe home with me you can sleep on my couch or floor youcan slpl i will take o turn to the streets. i will give you food or a safe place.e just come home with me.

susan virgin now runs fivegeles. say films for women in los angeles that were released. from prison in the organization is called a new ray of light to help find fin jobs and housing in reunitehat e women and beyond that she is organizing formally incarcerated people to ste re demand a restoration of the basic civil and human rights. clearly says it has caught up to king but what about the rest of us? point wi now what i have to say on this point will not be popular.it's it's t that it is not the sunny and cheerful message expected on the day after we inaugurated, for our second time the nation's first black president but i truth believe it to be the truth and implicates me androom

everyone in this room. the truth is this but wewe have allowed a human rights nightmare to occur on our watch. in the years since dr. king's death the bad news system of racial andom thef social control havingslaver emerged from the ashes of crow slavery.system of a system of mass incarceration that no doubt has dr. king turning in hisarcen grave today. the mass incarceration of for people of color is tantamount to a new cast like system that has aryan people to decrepit under prisons schools -- schools and employers for people of color into a permanent second-class status nearly as effectively as earlier systems of social control once did it is in my view the moral equivalent of jim

it crow. i am always eager to it meant there was a time when timi i rejected this kind of talk out of he and when iere was a rejected comparisons between incaation ceration is slavery and jim crow be leaving those comparisons were exaggerations or distortion or hyperbole and there was a time that i. thought people who made those claims and comparisons were actually doing more harm than good with the efforts to reform the criminal justice system and chief greater racial equality in the uniteded states. r what a difference a decade makes. mak for after years as working as a civil-rights lawyer it prvocate tovi represent victims of racial profiling and police brutality also haug enforcement of cumae's of colors it assisting those

coming from prison to, re-enter a society thatiety that never showed much use fore first them in the first place i had a series of experiences sere wayt i now call my awakening. i began to awaken to the racial reality that is so real obvious to me now is seems odd in retrospect that ihat been blind to it asr so long. as i i write in the introduction to my book, "the new jim crow" what has changed since the collapse of jim crow is the les basic structure of ourour society in the language we use to justify it.e use in theto era of color blindness is no longer socially permissible to use race explicitly as a justification for it is explicit discrimination and socialtifican content so we don't. rather than rely on race we our iminal jinal-justice system to label people of color criminals engaged in all the practices that weand the

supposedly left behind but today it is perfectly legal to discriminate against perfectl criminals and all the waysminals it was once legal to discriminate atkins o african-americans. once you are labeled a felony, employment, housing, a denial of the right to vote, exclusion from jury suddene suddenly is legal. as a criminal you have more rigt rights than less respect than the black man living inspet alabama at the height of jimm crow. crow. we have not ended racial past we have merely caste redesigned it. now for those who may think that is overstating the cas case, consider this. there are more african-american adults under correctional control todan today in jail or o prison or parole there we're enslaved

in 1850, one decade before the civil war began. as of 2004 more black men of 2 disenfnchiseanchised vanity to 70 the year the 15thn 187 tifiedent was ratified explicitly denying the right to vote on the basis of race. all 15th amendment prohibited all laws explicitly denying the right to vote based on race but poll taxes and literacy circvented t jim crow era circumvented the 15th amendment operated tuesday vo.ht african-americans the opportunity.

more than half of working age at african-american men diriminaords and are subject to legalize discrimination for the rest of their lives. the fact in some cities like chicago, baltimore phila philadelphia, d.c., the list goes on in some cities the statistics are far worse and it was reported in chicagod in that if you take into account prisoners andtually actually count them as people, keep in mind if andkeep prisoners are excluded from povy poverty statistic and unemployment data masking. the severity of racial equality kid actually crown cou -- counted prisoners as people in the chicago area? nearly 80 percent of working age african-american men have criminal records with subject to legalize lelize dnation for the rest

of their lives. their part of the growing undercast, not class, a group of people to find largely by a race underprivileged by law. tellnd today when i tellen i people that i now believe in mass incarceration is likelyis i in new jim-crow and it cast and like system they say how can you say that?f. how can you say that? this is and not a crimef crime l control and villages stop running around committing so many crimes we all have to worry about being locked upto ben stripped of their civil and human rights. but therein lies the greatest myth of mass incarceration fed is driven by crime and crates. not true. it is just not true. our prison population qutupled

quintupled in the space of ea years.of 30 y quintupled we have gone fromwe v a prison population of about 300,000 to the incarcerated population of over 2 million. we have the highest rate of the incarceration around the world to under highly oppressive oppressive regimes under russia or china or iran. again this cannot be explained by crime or crime by c rates.res. no. no. no, during that same period ofdurine time, that our incarceration rate increased exponentially , but crime ratestu fluctuated went up and down a back up again in today as bad as they areas c nationally there atl historical lows. the most criminologists

today will live knowledge that crime rates in incarceration rates in the united states have movedtatesasd independently from one another. incarceration rates rates, especially black rates have soared regardless whether crime is going up ors givecommuny given community or the nation as a whole. so what explains this sudden e explosion ofxp incarceration? with the penal system precededented in world history? is not a crime or crime and c rates but the answer is the on drugs with the wavemovement of punitive ness that washed over the united states. drug -- drug convictions twone accounted forout two-thirds of theo- increase of the federal prithson system in more than half of the state prison system from 1985 through 2000 with the rate of expansion from the get a system.

how large a contribution has made to massconsids. incarceration, consider this there are more people inns ofesons and details today there we're incarcerated for zeroed reasons in 1980. now most americans violate drug laws of some form in their lifetime. most people. but the enemy in the war has been racially defined to. not by a accident but has been waged almost e exclusively of communities of color even though studiesmmul consistently have shown for decades contrary to popular belief people of color did not use or sell illegal drugs at higher rates. that it surprises the basic

no stereotypes of through the drug dealer is and pitcher in your mind a drug dealer s and who do see?ly been there are studies conducted after that particularng that icr question in the mid-1980s a sutional survey was conducted asking people to leop close their eyes and imagine said drug criminal to report er 9 they saw. over 95 percent of respondents r picture someonemen african-american most cannot picture any other ethnicl group with rethink of drug so criminals in the united states people who are black and brown the studies have consistently shown that people of race use and sell drugs at remarkably similar fact rates in some studiese suggest white use is more

legal to engage in illegal drug dealing van the black use but that is now whichat is you would guess by taking a whae peek inside the nation's prisons and jails betterdrug overflowing with black and drown drug offenders a year 90 percent of all drug offenders and toug prison are of one race. rican-n-american. i know many people say that is a shame. that u know but we need to get tough on them. those faults. folk in the hs ood. that is where the drug kinge pins can be found. been aimed't realize this is never been aimed at reaching feralhe violent offenders. now it has flowed to local and state and law enforcementds agencies withhat the sheer number of drug

laenforc numbers game law enforcement agencies have been awarded in cash for the sheer number of people swept into the system for a drug o offenses that helps toffh helps explain why so many people polic go out and look for the low hanging fruit to causes many many people as possible in theefforte effort to get the numbers up u bid to make members worseure worse, the drug forfeiture law allows state and local law-enforcement agencies, tothe keep for their own use 80 percent of the cash, cars and homes seized from suspected drug -- drug to offenders law-enforcement can take your cash, a seizure carr the us with a direct monetary use but in the longevii war

prself and as a result been people of color has been arrested in mass for nonviolent drug offenses. in 2005 for about five were arrested for simple position one that most people in state prison have no history of violence or even significant selling activity in the 1990's a period of the greatests escalation of ther drug for nearly 80 percent of the increase of the drug arrs arrest were for marijuana possession of a drug to show ss less addictive than alcohol or tobacco and if at least it not more prevalent on ourclah college campuses as it is in the hood. but by waging this warst exclusi almost exclusively in the hood we have managed tomanaged h createis a vast new undercast

in the astonishingly short period of time. where has the u.s. supreme court been in all of this? where has the u.s. supreme court ben?ting far from protecting thee and interest of the insular minorities that has been busy defending the war at every turn over the lasts. supre couple of decades has the decad eviscerated fourth amendment protections againstons againsunn unreasonable searches and seizures telling the policeity they have the authority to stop the first search anyone coming anywhere without any wit probable cause or reasonable suspicion, not one shred of evidence of criminal activity as long as they getnt. consent. what is consent? is cnt? walks upolice officer walks

up t to a young man with oneks hand on his gun and says pledgor arms in the air so iys can search you. that young man just waved his fourth of its cement rights against an -- a reasonable searches and shred of seizures and did not have to have a shred of evidence now that he has consented the leaving of course, they you really had no ability to refuse to consent and walk away. you may say these are might isolated instances but fees add up to eagerness racialracial disparities justin one year alone more than six and m 3,000 people we're stopped and frisked. when you're all alone and overwhelmingly black and t the u.n.

but u.s.s. supreme court hashale ruled we cannot challenge d theseis disparities and aurt of court of law beginning with armstrong versus unitedampton states the supreme court has the u.s. ruled explicitly it does not it matter how overwhelming the statistical evidence might be or how severe the racial disparities of less you cannot offer it intentionalbias bias tantamount to it and its mission by a the police l officer or law enforcement official you cannot even stake a claim in thesystem tod criminal justice systemay today. so many of their racial profiling cases i wasg 10 litigated 10 years ago cannot be filed today. the u.s. supreme court hasouse s closed the of warehouse claim stores to the criminal p om stoprocess to plea bargaining and sympathy.

ridden so many ways the u.s. supreme court has effectively immunized massof mas incarceration from judicial scrutiny and much of the same grade u.s. supreme once ronce rallied to the defense of slavery and againim to the defense of jim crow in earlier eras. earl but of course, just swept into the system with little hope to challenge the that go tactics that got you there is just the beginning. because once you have been havet branded a criminal or fallen you are assured into a social universe in which the very rights that no longer longr ap applypl to you. you may be denied the right to vote for a period of years or theth rest of yourive . life depending on the state you live in and deemed and eligible for jury juservice for the rest of your life

for the rest of your life discrimination of employment notdi only legal but routine. you are forced to check that box on employment application of the dreadedcted f question have you ever been convicted of felony? doesn't matter few months ormono for e rest ago. for the rest of your life you have to check the box goinight to application is goingth straight to the trash. people say stop making excuses. me kinks uses for when you get out of prison it is hard and tough but ifen you try, if you really work d put yoourself out there, you could get a jobuld gt at mcdonald's or burger king or something. getting a job atonald's is no easy feat if you hav if you have a felony record. housing discrimination istion py perfectly legal.

released from rison housing projects can discriminate and close their doors end under federal law you are deemed ineligible for food stamps for the rest of your life if you're convicted ofhe a drug felony but now many states have opted out for drug offenders but stillnd hundreds of thousands cannot even get food stamps to feed themselves because they were once caught with drugs. whow what are people released from prison expected topr do? u can't get a job. you can get housing. even food stamps might be off limits to you. are what he expected to do?apparentt

thouof dollae expect people to pay hundreds thousands of dollars of the incentivizing ccurt costs with accumulated hea back child support thatcrue whiu accrues will you are under -- imprisoned and then expected to pay back the cost of your imprisonment to pay back these fines and accumulated back child sup child-support as a condition of your probation or parole. get this. if you're one of the luckythe vy few who manages to get a jobob t right out of prison come up up to one henderson and of your wages could be garnished to, to pay back this season finds and court costed accumulated back child support. what are they expected to do? do take a step back from the ck and ss a whole. to look get the impoverishedrfun

and underfunded schools. the children who were hounded by the police and stopped and frisked on the w to way to school when they'rewhen e old enough to drive the carsove. are pullover and searched reen they are swept in for committing some relatively minor crimes the first arrest is relatively a minorrts of crime the very sense that has equal frequency of the in middle-class white communities are college campuses largely ignored itred n ushered into the parallel social universe of and able to work to find shelter or even food? seem des what is the system designed to do? enfolds right back to prison which is what happens the

vast majority of the time. the 70 percent of people are released frompp prison we turned within a few years and those that do so do so survivn the ter of months because of the mayor survival why did we choosewe cho this past? how did we get ourselves here? all these years after dr. king has passed away?it is is clear to me in the years since his death, our nation was faced with a choice.ath we could continue down the path dr. king was traveling co of compassion, forgiveness, inc, lusion and help, to choose

the path of the pork people's movement he was plotting to join in the join thm revolution of values heor we cod prayed forif or take a road different road that is more comf familiar to matters of race of exclusion, a division, a punitive miss and despair. one day i believe historians look back at this era of mass incarceration to say was it was there, right there at the prison gates that we abandoned dr. king's dream to take the dramatic u-turn to leave millions of people permanently locked up and walked out we have now spent $1 trillion waging the drug fundat funds that could haveed

drugced for education, job creation, drug treatment and we're constantly told there th not enough money to pay teachers or small classsmall cls sizes.nough there's not enough money for jobs programs for the useugh mo. there is not enough moneypoor p for poor people.well appently we apparently we have $1 trillion as well. we decid if we decided to spend itor job rather than job creation but building a prison systemon syste unlike anything the world has ever known. what do we do? what do we do now? my own view is nothing short of the major social movement has any hope of ending fact incarceration jury inspire therc commitment to dr. king's dream if you think that

sounds extreme that it surely something less would do, i consider this.re to if we were to return to the t rates of incarceration that the 1 orn the 1970's or early 80s before the war on drugs we would have toly wlease four out of five people who are in prison of five. for out of five. more than 1 million people employed by the criminal-justice system. to be defined with a new new pro line of work most prisonn construction has occurred in right -- white rule communities answering to thees economic woes that belief ar they are enforced for now desperately needed jobs and very often they'reource for advertised to have far more benefits than they actually for coliver but so many now believe the economy is theionoms

thprisent. that most would have to. close down. private prison companies are listed on the new york stockge w exchange doing well even at a time of economic recession thi they should be forced intoaniesd bankruptcy. carc thiser system of bass incarceration so deeply ro rooted in our economic our socia structure will not just fadet fa away or downsize out of plght without a major peo upheaval or a shift ofin our pus republic consciousness. i know there is many peoplekn maday who say there is no hope of ending mass incarceration in america. no. pick another issue. just as many people were people dying to jim crow in the south would say yes. that is a shame that that is bu'

just the way that it is. so many people today with the millions cycling in the handouts is the unfortunate but unalterable fact of american life. i am quite certain that dr. king would not have been so resigned. honorieved if we're truly to honor dr. king or ever catch upin with him we have to beillin willing to continue his work and to go back and pick upoff ar where he left off to do the movent buiof movement building on behalf of allall co. people of all colors. in 1968 he told advocates from a c rightome to transition from civil rightsmanm movement to a human-rights movement. he said it could not bequality achieved through civil

rights alone without basic rights rights to work, shelter, a qualityqual education, evenivil human rights, civil rightsghts are the empty promise. so in honor i know that we went to build a human rights movement. of movement for jobs, not jails. a movement to end to theendl ths forms ofe legal discrimination against people that denies them basic human rights to work and shelter to work. truth but begin by telling the truth, the whole truth and goto admit outloud we as a nation have managed to recreate

caste like system in this country. we have to be willing to tell the truth in ourur our churchechurches and places of worship behind bars, reentry centers, wers. have to be willing to tell hae truth so a greatf what awakening, the reality of what has occurred can come pass. to pass because the reality is this new system does not syst come with signs. e are are no whites only. nine alerting us to the existence of this system of mass incarceration and ey are ot prisons today are out of sight and add of mind hundreds of miles away from communities and families that might otherwise me connected to them. and and ththe people who cycle inly and out typically live in segregated and impoverished communities that the upperss middle class folks barelycome a

come across.so you can said you can live your whole life in america today, having no idea thisrceran system of masts and course -- incarceration even exist.th so we have to be willing to abo tell the truth of what hast has and maed to pull back the curtain to make a visible what is hidden in plain sight so that the awakening can begin and people can begin to take the constructive action at this actn moment in our history htory requires but there is talk of consciousness raising will that be enough. cus we have to be willing to get to work and that means we have to build thepeople relea underground railroased for those released from prison

those who want to make a break for real freedom and escape the system to find for work and shelter to support their families. er find true freedom intrue frem weaveca today. we have to be willing to to open ourour sc homes, schools, workplaces to people returning home from prison to provide safefepao support for families to haveho d loved ones behind bars today. how to recreate these?e for one thing that we can do to admit our own criminalityity out loud. because the truth is we have av h all made mistakes in our life all of us have done,ll of wrong all of us have broken the law at some point of our

lives. in you are an adult you broken the law at some point people will say i am a sinner and i have made. mistakes but don't call me aut criminal i say maybe you never drink under age orderage. experimental with drugs butve dn the last thing on ashley worst to have done is 10 miles over the limit on the highway you have put hahan somet more risk of harm than onsomeone smoking marijuana in the privacy of their living your.the unit there are people serving life sciences for first-time life sncesses. the life sentence. the west supreme court upheld with the eighth t amendment challenge that cha they were cruel a and were c and unusual in violation of the eighth amendment and they said no. it is not cruel and unusualruel

an punishment to sentence thed young man to life in prisonman before the first time drug offense even thoughn though virtually no other countryhe w in the world does such a thing. so w have to end the idea that criminals are them and not us. say but to say there but for the of grace of god go i. of usall of a have made mistakes in taken of turns but only some of usse mistak only service are required to pay for those mistakes for the rest of our lives andf has d e op the bomb himself hasofg us admitted to more than a little bit of traduce he has admitted marijuana andine cocaine and if he had that and been raised by white toarents in green and parents in hawaii or had done much of his ill drugdrug use at the predominantly white college whie campuses in university's burr raised in the hunt theersit

odds are good he would have thed been stopped, frisked stopped, frisked, searched, a koch said far from being president of united states today he may not even have ited s the right to vote depending on the state he lives in. we gt we have to recognize to build this movement is about insuring the people of all of us so we can all dreamed t big dreams to join in the proj project of the american th is this is a movement we must build on behalf of allf ofl of us.us's not as an it is not just us or them the people that we imagine are the criminals. but of course, building this underground dirt road is notng to enough either just as in the days of slavery was nott enough to shuttle to free them one by one but to open

our hearts and minds one byare v one we have to be willing to work for abolition of massons corporation -- incarceration asn whole ending the war on. drugs once and for all we publih must shift to a public health model and stop investing billions ofng billiof dollars locking people up in prisons and jails cells rather than investing inducation education, a drug free from the job creation in the communities that need it most.needed we have to end all forms of to legal discrimination of those released from prison that denies basic human rights to work, shelter, food. last but not least to shift

from a punitive approach to deag deal with violent crime toestord oner be habilitated of one that takes seriously theious interest of the victims the, the offender in that community as a whole. we have a lot of work to do. it if it seems like it cannot donek possibly be done coming keep in mind all of these rules and laws and policies and practices used they'll best same one core belief that is the same belief that sustains jim crow that some of us, some of us, are not worthy of genuine passion and care and concern and when we effectivelye belief challenged that core belief stem this whole system begins to fall like dominoes the multia me a ethn h